Murphy pledges a ‘sprint’ to finish his term, with a push to ban cell phones in school

The outgoing governor grades NJ Transit, weighs in on swing-state talk, and says he’s ready for a breather — but not retirement.

As he nears the end of his eight years in office, Governor Phil Murphy sat down with State House News Service on Sept. 29 for a candid assessment of his time in Trenton, including overseeing the legalization of recreational cannabis, handling the Covid-19 pandemic, and his pledge to create a fairer and more equitable New Jersey

He also emphasized he hasn’t yet settled into a rocking chair.

“We haven’t done everything we hoped for,” he said, “but that also means we’ll spend the next four months literally sprinting.” He’s not shying from controversy during his last days, either. A major goal during the lame duck period this fall will be a “bell-to-bell” ban of cell phones in schools. “That would be at or near the top of my list,” he said.

In a lighter moment, Murphy talked about his passion for Broadway musicals and noted that in high school and college he relished a reputation as a “song and dance man,” a designation that some of his most cheeky critics might say aptly describes his tenure as governor.

But Murphy is proud of what he has accomplished while in the State House, and refrains from measuring his term against perfection. “I’d like to be perfect as much as the next guy,” he said, “but I look at the journey, there are two metrics that we look at, where were we versus where are we, and where are we as an American state relative to other American states.”

Following is a transcript of the thirty-minute interview with Murphy at the State House earlier this week. It has been lightly edited for clarity and length.

New Jersey is said to be becoming more purple. Are we headed toward 1980s-era swing-state status and would that be a good or a bad thing?

Well, I’m a Democrat, so I don’t want it to be a swing state.

I continue to think that Trump is a unique, singular figure. He’s very proud of the fact that he shrunk his loss margin in New Jersey from, I think it was 15 or 16 in 2020, to five points in 2024. I think he did that similarly in Maryland, New York, Illinois, California, New Jersey. And to his credit, he thinks that’s a sign that’s like the canary in the coal mine, as it were, that his party will do better even when his name is not on the ballot. I’m skeptical of that. 

Having said that, I think this is a very, very close governor’s race, very close. I’m obviously a big fan, and I’m all in for Mikie Sherrill, but just like my re-election, it’s very hard in a lot of states these days, and New Jersey is one of them. It’s very hard to see landslides anymore. So I won the first time by, like, 14 points; second time by 3 or 3.3 (points). This is a tight race. This is going to look a lot more like my re-election, versus my election. 

But I don’t think we’re headed to swing state territory, but New Jersey, like another really, quote, unquote blue state, Massachusetts, has elected Republican governors, particularly reasonable Republican governors, pretty regularly over the past 50 years. 

We just, my wife and I, just hosted a dinner for the documentarian Ken Burns at the governor’s residence last week or two weeks ago. You know, I’m sitting there, 35 people at dinner. Governor Tom Kean, Governor Christie Whitman, [and] Governor Christie. Chris Christie wasn’t quite in the same lane as the other two, but they’re all reasonable people who want to do the best for the state — that they don’t come in with some extreme agenda one way or the other, and each of them got elected handily in New Jersey. 

What are your plans after you leave this office? Do you have aspirations for public office again, like maybe Senate or president, or maybe you could see yourself more in a Cabinet or foreign policy role as a Democratic presidential appointee? 

No plans at the moment. Most of that would not be on my list. Part of the reality of Donald Trump as president is our ears are pinned back, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Any amount of time I thought I might have to be able to think about life has been put on the shelf. There’s just the enormous volatility, enormous unpredictability. 

I did get, as a birthday gift from my wife, a trip after I’m out of office. I know that much. Hopefully get caught up and relax. Love the job, but it is, without question, all-consuming. So looking forward to being through the tape and then recharging. But is public service still potentially in the cards? Absolutely. But no specific plans. 

What are three things that make you proudest from your eight years? Three things that you will fight hard for through the term’s end? 

Proud of the fact that we said we are who we said. We said we’re going to focus on a stronger economy, which is more jobs. We’ve done that. A fairer New Jersey, which is basically more equity, particularly along racial lines, and to a certain degree, along gender lines. We’ve done that. We said we would be a more responsible New Jersey. That means things like making the full pension payment, funding public schools, fully funding property tax relief. Bond rating agencies, upgrading us nine times, is a great example that we’ve said. 

We haven’t done everything we hoped for, but that also means we’ll spend the next four months literally sprinting. 

I’m a big believer, and have become an even bigger believer, in a bell-to-bell ban of cell phones in schools. That would be at or near the top of my list. 

You’ll see us probably continue to be very fiscally responsible. When you’re leaving office, I get the sense that there’s a good amount of folks who think they can get you to spend money because you’re not around to have to worry about the implications. I think we’ll be tough on that stuff, particularly with a choppy national and global economy right now. 

I’m proud of the seeds that we’re planting that will bloom when we’re not here. So we just did a big economic mission to India, while we brought back 400 to 500 jobs. Most of the positive implications of that trip will be long after I’m gone. We’re going to host the World Cup, and the World Cup final next year. 

Likewise, the 250th anniversary of the birth of the United States. Our guiding thesis has been the New Jersey story is under-told. Massachusetts/Boston, Pennsylvania/Philadelphia, have done a much better job telling their story when, in fact, more battles took place in New Jersey than any other state. 

Do you feel NJ Transit is where it needs to be today, and how do you score NJ Transit overall?

We’ve made an enormous amount of progress on all the things that we said we care about: safety, on-time performance, customer satisfaction. Is it perfect? No. But people forget what a mess it was when we got here. So if you’re missing your meal with your family and you’re not happy, I don’t blame you. 

We’ll have an entirely new fleet of rail cars and buses in by the year 2031, which is an ongoing process. We hired gobs of engineers when the last administration had let that cupboard go empty. We’ve won accolades. Two years ago, the best transit system in America, whatever the award was called. 

I’d probably give us somewhere in the B, B-plus range. The last year, particularly since January, since the new CEO, Kris Kolluri, took over – I’d give us a particularly good grade this year. I’d be in the A, A-minus range, maybe, for this particular year, and hopefully it stays that way through the time we leave again. 

This past summer just passed versus last summer – just a dramatically different and better experience. I also applied the Taylor Swift test, which is: How do we do moving people in and out of big events? We were lousy when we first got here. We’re now top of the nation, in terms of bodies we move in and out. Springsteen, the year later, Oasis, earlier this month, moving 12,000 to 15,000 people in and out efficiently has become something that we do really well, that’s going to be important for the World Cup, I might add, as well.

What is your level of confidence like in New Jersey’s ability to handle another COVID-type outbreak?

Inside the four walls of New Jersey we’re far better prepared. We had no playbook. One of the things I’m most proud of – and by the way, I’m most ashamed of, in a different way – is we’re the only government that we’ve found in America that commissioned a completely arms’-length post mortem on our response to the COVID pandemic. They produced a 900-something page report. We stood up a blue ribbon panel, by the way, that will be in existence until the last minute I’m in office to act on those 27 recommendations. The first time we saw the report was when it was published, and they had access to everybody, including many, many hours with me.

I’m very worried about the American health regime at the moment. You’re seeing stuff made that’s based on innuendo, rumors, social media, not based on science and facts. And that’s a really bad trend. This business that Tylenol causes autism — zero evidence,  zero. It’s not like some things are like a gray area. This is black and white. That worries me, and you’re seeing it on vaccines. You’re seeing it on public health, the gutting of the CDC. So, as a state, I feel really good, but you need a robust federal government as it relates to public health, and right now, that’s the last thing we have, public health. Sorry to be so crabby about it.

What is your assessment of the social-equity and social-justice goals that your administration sought to achieve?

Not perfect, but very, very good. You know, [we] are going to break ground in two weeks, at long last, on the women’s correctional facility that will replace the Edna Mahan building, or institution, that’s been a scourge for decades in New Jersey, particularly for black women. 

If you look at housing, affordable housing, job access, and opportunities. We did the disparity study that will allow us, at long last, to diversify our suppliers, where we’ve been shamefully lacking.

There are two metrics that we look at: Where were we versus where are we, and where are we as an American state relative to other American states? What was the experience like for a Black family? What is it like now? On equity, how are we relative to other American states, and on both of those metrics, our journey has been significant, and I’d say, largely successful.

How is the rollout of cannabis consumption lounges going?

I’m told good. The rollout of cannabis generally has been very good, and I was frustrated early on when it was going so slowly. It turns out better to be slow and get it right than go fast, like a lot of other states have done. I won’t mention names that really didn’t get it right. 

I’ve never been a weed guy. If we were legalizing Scotch whiskey, I would have been in that lounge. I would have been the first customer. I would have been the last one to leave. But weed has never been a big thing for me, so it’s a little bit of an interesting concept for a guy who’s not into that, to think about going to someplace, I assume, to smoke, even gummy or whatever, just a little bit foreign for me, but I know there’s demand for it. 

There are safeguards around it, just like a bar; you don’t want somebody walking out of a bar, getting into having drunk a lot, getting into a car, and driving it. We need similar safeguards around anybody who’s high. 

What’s your favorite Broadway musical, your favorite song to sing along to, and what would New Jerseyans be most surprised by the artist you listen to?

The title song to “Hello, Dolly!” – one of the all-time greats. I saw Carol Channing playing Dolly back in 1967, which was an incredible treat. No, I’m sorry. I saw Carol Channing in a revival in the ‘70s. I saw another person play Dolly – it might have been Ethel Merman – in ‘67. 

The First Act finale for “Les Misérables. ” By the way, sung live at the 2012 Academy Awards by the Hollywood cast of the movie. If you haven’t seen it, look that up on YouTube. That’s for the ages, including Russell Crowe. And then the First Act finale for “West Side Story.” Again, Leonard Bernstein wrote the music. Stephen Sondheim, when he was only doing lyrics, wrote the lyrics. The movie, the most recent version of it, was shot in New Jersey, which makes it particularly cool. 

To sing along to: There’s the group that won’t surprise you, like Bon Jovi, Bruce Springsteen, that crowd. I’ve gotten to know Jack Antonoff, who’s from Bergen County. He produces all the big people, mostly beginning with Taylor Swift. He’s got a band himself called Bleachers. Unbelievable live performer. Chappell Roan, I’m a big fan of – that may surprise some people. 

I saw your April Fool’s post that you were going to direct a Broadway show.

One of my sisters sent me a text and said, ‘This is news to us. When did this happen?’ I had to break it to her that it was an April Fool’s joke. I used to be a song-and-dance man in high school and college. 

With the World Cup coming next year, do you think this opens the door to New Jersey to host more international competitions? We saw the World Cup trophy in your office. We want to know if you get to keep it. Will you go to any games? Are you supporting anybody besides the U.S.? Do you have a dream World Cup matchup?

The trophy is not real. Sorry. And I will keep it. It’s a cool thing. You’re not allowed to touch the World Cup unless you won a World Cup. How cool is that? 

We are already a big sports and entertainment state. That’s one of the things on my list. I forget who asked: What am I proud of that’d be on my list? The World Cup final, obviously, is at the top of that list. But we are a big UFC state. We had the Army-Navy Game here. We’re pitching for the Hockey World Cup. 

I was in India last week. We’re trying to get a cricket stadium built in New Jersey. Given how massive a South Asian population we have, I’m pretty confident we’ll get that done, again, after I’m gone, but have it set up before the time we go. 

We do the Premier League summer series every year. I will go to all eight matches, for sure. We’ll have five first-round, one round of 32, one round of 16, then the World Cup final, July 19.

Clearly rooting for the Americans. They haven’t been so hot lately, so I’m hoping they get their act together between now and their first game is June 12 on the West Coast. So they’ve got the U.S. team playing all their first round on the West Coast. The Canadians co-host. Canada playing their first round in Canada. The Mexicans also co-host. Playing their first round in Mexico. So I hope we’re in the mix. 

I had lunch with the guys who run FIFA on Friday. We were all making the observation that the host team usually rises up to the occasion and finds a way to play better.

I’ve been our ambassador in Germany. Lived there twice. We have a home in Berlin, still. Germany, if not America, would probably be high on the list, although the Germans are having a hard time qualifying right now. We love Italy. Italians are probably on the list. They’re also having a hard time qualifying. It’s the first time the Cup will ever have 48 teams. It was 32 for the last, basically, six or seven Cups. Now it will be 48, so a much more global event. 

Editor’s note: These questions were prepared and the interview conducted by NJ State House News Service reporters Isabella Burke of Rutgers University, Isabella Darcy of The College of New Jersey, Brooke Holzhauer of William Paterson University, Adam Kimball of Rowan University, and Rebecca Wechter of The College of New Jersey.